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	<title>Comments on: A puzzle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in bacon</title>
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	<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/</link>
	<description>we like kittens and spoons and cake</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:46:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: makomk</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1447</link>
		<dc:creator>makomk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1447</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1343&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@lspci&lt;/a&gt;, actually that&#039;s not quite true. IANAL, but I think Microsoft could (quite easily) have a patent on some aspect of implementing a GUI on top of .Net that&#039;s broad enough to cover Gtk#. For example, they might target it at using the .Net method of handling callbacks for GUI events. The reason Microsoft would want to target it to .Net specifically is that it severely reduces the amount of prior art that could be used against the patent. A patent that also applied to Gtk+ would be much harder for Microsoft to defend.

Since the Microsoft patent agreement only covers patents required to use the ECMA bits of .Net, and they don&#039;t include any of the GUI aspects, any such patent wouldn&#039;t be covered by the agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1343" rel="nofollow">@lspci</a>, actually that&#8217;s not quite true. IANAL, but I think Microsoft could (quite easily) have a patent on some aspect of implementing a GUI on top of .Net that&#8217;s broad enough to cover Gtk#. For example, they might target it at using the .Net method of handling callbacks for GUI events. The reason Microsoft would want to target it to .Net specifically is that it severely reduces the amount of prior art that could be used against the patent. A patent that also applied to Gtk+ would be much harder for Microsoft to defend.</p>
<p>Since the Microsoft patent agreement only covers patents required to use the ECMA bits of .Net, and they don&#8217;t include any of the GUI aspects, any such patent wouldn&#8217;t be covered by the agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1380</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1380</guid>
		<description>Linux kernel is Different.   Linux kernel has patent agreements covering large sections of its code base. 

This makes taking on the Linux kernel a major risk.   Linux Kernel does not have to depend on OIN to defend itself.  Remember SCO case numbers of interested parties with weapons that came out at the start of that.

With the Linux Kernel you can be sure Linux foundation will be there to back you up in any case of patent attack.  With Mono will Novell be there to protect those who get attacked or will it just be lining up to sell licences.

Freetype has an agreement with apple over the BCI code.  Notice it don&#039;t build by default you have to pass flag to enable it.  If you read Freetype docs you will find where to get a patent license to use there restricted sections.

People are not worried about Freetype patent issue its there in black and white even with a date when the patents will expire and the feature can be enabled for everyone from then on.

Basically Mono does not have all the patent agreements it needs or have enough patents and money to scare attackers away.   Linux kernel has enough patents and money that any attacker better be sure there patents are valid because they will fight or code patent usage out of existance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linux kernel is Different.   Linux kernel has patent agreements covering large sections of its code base. </p>
<p>This makes taking on the Linux kernel a major risk.   Linux Kernel does not have to depend on OIN to defend itself.  Remember SCO case numbers of interested parties with weapons that came out at the start of that.</p>
<p>With the Linux Kernel you can be sure Linux foundation will be there to back you up in any case of patent attack.  With Mono will Novell be there to protect those who get attacked or will it just be lining up to sell licences.</p>
<p>Freetype has an agreement with apple over the BCI code.  Notice it don&#8217;t build by default you have to pass flag to enable it.  If you read Freetype docs you will find where to get a patent license to use there restricted sections.</p>
<p>People are not worried about Freetype patent issue its there in black and white even with a date when the patents will expire and the feature can be enabled for everyone from then on.</p>
<p>Basically Mono does not have all the patent agreements it needs or have enough patents and money to scare attackers away.   Linux kernel has enough patents and money that any attacker better be sure there patents are valid because they will fight or code patent usage out of existance.</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1379</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1379</guid>
		<description>IBM issues patent rights to particular licenses ie a particular list of condutions.  As long a code is shipped under those condutions any person recieving gets the rights.  So even creating something not related to a standard by IBM would also acquire the rights as long as it ships under the right licence.  So yes anyone to use that license gets those rights to pass on to there users.

Now this is not a breach of GPL.  Since the rights are transferable.   Now shipping under a licence IBM has not approved you basically did not get the rights in the first place.

There is no legal way to back out of the way IBM does it.   There are deeper legal inspection of the CP is need to find out if it is or is not GPL compadible. 

MS might be able to back out on Mono by claiming particular areas don&#039;t follow spec so they can sue.  CP is not as solid as what IBM gives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IBM issues patent rights to particular licenses ie a particular list of condutions.  As long a code is shipped under those condutions any person recieving gets the rights.  So even creating something not related to a standard by IBM would also acquire the rights as long as it ships under the right licence.  So yes anyone to use that license gets those rights to pass on to there users.</p>
<p>Now this is not a breach of GPL.  Since the rights are transferable.   Now shipping under a licence IBM has not approved you basically did not get the rights in the first place.</p>
<p>There is no legal way to back out of the way IBM does it.   There are deeper legal inspection of the CP is need to find out if it is or is not GPL compadible. </p>
<p>MS might be able to back out on Mono by claiming particular areas don&#8217;t follow spec so they can sue.  CP is not as solid as what IBM gives.</p>
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		<title>By: Criticism where it is due &#171; mono-nono</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1374</link>
		<dc:creator>Criticism where it is due &#171; mono-nono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1374</guid>
		<description>[...] have his careless &#8220;glossing over&#8221; the distinction on his own blog&#8217;s announcement: If the anti-Mono crowd were provided with their GPL-compatible patent grant for Mono, which they [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have his careless &#8220;glossing over&#8221; the distinction on his own blog&#8217;s announcement: If the anti-Mono crowd were provided with their GPL-compatible patent grant for Mono, which they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Love</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1372</link>
		<dc:creator>David Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1372</guid>
		<description>Mmmm.... bacon.  Now I&#039;m hungry. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm&#8230;. bacon.  Now I&#8217;m hungry. :(</p>
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		<title>By: lspci</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1367</link>
		<dc:creator>lspci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1367</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1322&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Rui Seabra&lt;/a&gt;, 

OOXML is under the Microsoft Open Specification Promise.

But I did not expect less from you Rui, always with the half-truths and the lying by omissions that worked so well for you in your anti OOXML campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1322" rel="nofollow">@Rui Seabra</a>, </p>
<p>OOXML is under the Microsoft Open Specification Promise.</p>
<p>But I did not expect less from you Rui, always with the half-truths and the lying by omissions that worked so well for you in your anti OOXML campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: directhex</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1365</link>
		<dc:creator>directhex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1365</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1364&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Michael&lt;/a&gt;, Yep, you got it 100%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1364" rel="nofollow">@Michael</a>, Yep, you got it 100%</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1364</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1364</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1363&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@directhex&lt;/a&gt;, 

Noted.  I had forgotten the example of alleged patent infringement in the Linux kernel.

So distribution of code seems to be a separate legal issue aside from whether that code infringes on patents.  Even FreeType, then, has subpixel-filtering and BCI code that is distributed, though not in binary form, and is patent-encumbered.

I think I understand.  Patent infringement itself is not inherently a contradiction to the GPL.

Fedora&#039;s case against the Community Promise then lies merely in the desire to reduce litigation vulnerability as far as possible, and not actually any licensing problem.  And anxiety of taking on that risk is up to each individual distribution, and has been alleviated somewhat by this Promise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1363" rel="nofollow">@directhex</a>, </p>
<p>Noted.  I had forgotten the example of alleged patent infringement in the Linux kernel.</p>
<p>So distribution of code seems to be a separate legal issue aside from whether that code infringes on patents.  Even FreeType, then, has subpixel-filtering and BCI code that is distributed, though not in binary form, and is patent-encumbered.</p>
<p>I think I understand.  Patent infringement itself is not inherently a contradiction to the GPL.</p>
<p>Fedora&#8217;s case against the Community Promise then lies merely in the desire to reduce litigation vulnerability as far as possible, and not actually any licensing problem.  And anxiety of taking on that risk is up to each individual distribution, and has been alleviated somewhat by this Promise.</p>
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		<title>By: directhex</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1363</link>
		<dc:creator>directhex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1363</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1360&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Michael&lt;/a&gt;, Could Mono be distributed? Sure, absolutely - but you&#039;d be taking it upon yourself to deal with the risks associated, just as you accept risk of patent litigation for using the Linux kernel in the absence of patent protection from everyone in the world, or using things like media players in the absence of patent grants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1360" rel="nofollow">@Michael</a>, Could Mono be distributed? Sure, absolutely &#8211; but you&#8217;d be taking it upon yourself to deal with the risks associated, just as you accept risk of patent litigation for using the Linux kernel in the absence of patent protection from everyone in the world, or using things like media players in the absence of patent grants.</p>
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		<title>By: directhex</title>
		<link>http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/145/comment-page-1/#comment-1362</link>
		<dc:creator>directhex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/?p=145#comment-1362</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1359&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@sdg&lt;/a&gt;, According to the Banshee maintainers, they&#039;ll happily move to a different SQLite binding if one is offered - it&#039;s not clear what specifically makes System.Data risky (i.e. is Mono.Data safe?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1359" rel="nofollow">@sdg</a>, According to the Banshee maintainers, they&#8217;ll happily move to a different SQLite binding if one is offered &#8211; it&#8217;s not clear what specifically makes System.Data risky (i.e. is Mono.Data safe?)</p>
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